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(Susan Gibb) Good afternoon everyone. My name is Susan Gibb and
I am the executive director of Western Front.

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It's great to have you here this afternoon
for day two of the

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artist talks as part of the Vancouver
International Jazz Festival

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with one of the artists-in-residence, Susie Ibarra,
that will be moderated by François Houle.

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Before we begin I just want to acknowledge
that we're gathered on the

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unceded ancestral territories of the Musqueam,
Squamish, and Tsleil-Waututh Nations.

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And then I'm going to hand it over but I actually have one
thing, a bit of housekeeping to say, there will be the

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opportunity to ask questions because
we're also live streaming this.

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If you do want to ask a question just wait until
my colleague Sophie over here gives

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you the microphone that way people both online
and in person can hear your question.

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So I'll hand it over. Thank you.

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[applause]

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(François Houle) It's very live. Thank you so much. Thank you to Cole and
Susan, the Jazz Festival for having us here.

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And thank you for Susie to be here with her instruments
and to talk to us about her creative process.

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I think we're...

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(Susie Ibarra) Thank you François also for being here.

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(François) Thank you.

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I thought I would just try just to open things up just to ask
Susie about her relationship to Vancouver, how many times

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she's been there, who she's collaborated with and what she's
currently doing with a very special group of people.

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How about we start there and see where it goes.

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(Susie) Oh my goodness. I don't actually know how many times I've been
in Vancouver and it's been a little bit. So I'm just so

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thrilled to be here with you all and the warm reception
and this extraordinary residency.

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I think all of the artists, the young artists that I'm mentoring
in the lab, the creative improvisers studio here at

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Western Front with Coastal Jazz and also
the two ensembles of Canadian

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soloists who are joining me for music on Friday
and Saturday have been tremendous.

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And it's been a while but I actually came here because I also
was a TED fellow and I was working on some of my more

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environmental and conservation work through music and sound
and one of my collaborators actually lives here, 

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Dr. Michelle Kopes, who will come out for concerts and she's

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collaborated with me on recording some of
the glacier work that I've done has been with Michelle.

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And so we recorded out here at some of the glaciers here off
of Vancouver and also in Washington State, and I think

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these were the first glaciers I recorded before
I started to work in the Himalayas.

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So I feel very sentimental actually to be in this landscape
and with you all I feel close to it in a certain way and

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water has a certain sound just like music and musicians have
a certain sound and I was teaching in Harvard and some of

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the students were creating these pieces, these
site-specific pieces and one of the

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young women from there was a musician was from
the University of Northern California.

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And she was from the north of Washington State and played these
water recordings and sure enough it was like just from

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this region it was amazing. So I feel
very, very honoured to be

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back here with you all in that way
and taking those sounds in.

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(François) Of course when we talk about the rain forest today or
yesterday you were at Beaver Lake in Stanley Park.

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You're talking about the ecology that we're surrounded here
that we often take for granted must have quite an

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impression on you because of where you live and where you come
from where I think I know that you've explored a lot of

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the northwest of the United States,
Washington in particular.

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But how much of that contrast between that and maybe more
arid areas that you've explored I think in Colorado or

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Arizona and how would that compare
like in terms of impact or

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the thoughts and the meditative process
that's involved in that.

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How much of that kicks in and takes you to places you haven't
been to before. 

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Susie) That's a very thoughtful question François.

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Yes, I do research in a lot of different biodiverse habitats,
I research sound, and I think they do have their

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relations to each other but they are different than I tried
to really be present when I'm in where I am.

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But you know, this is the first time I visited
Stanley with our workshop lab and

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the rain forest here is different than if I
was in a certain tropical rain forest.

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When you say arid or desert even in whether it's
canyons or deserts, I worked a lot

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in North Africa and also where you're referring
to southwest in the United States.

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What's fascinating when I found whether I'm here in Vancouver
that's next to the ocean and you also have the freshwater

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glacier streams, you have the rain forest, or if I've been
the very dry place, walking the river routes of the draw

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Valley of the South Sahara that are now
just stone beds or in 30 million.

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You've seen era lithophones of canyons in Utah. It's still a
story about water. It's amazing. You know, it's whether I

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didn't plan it that I was always going
to be researching water but it's

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such a life source, and it's, it always
comes back to me like whether I'm

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going for a film that's on climate in the Philippines
or something there's, it's the

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different characteristics the different characters
of water and different histories, right?

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And, and what are the activities of that and the sounds
and how we live in it or in the Medina Fez in Morocco,

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it used to be known as the city of 1000 rivers, and
I was working with Aziza Chaouni,

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an amazing architect from from Fez
but now she's a, she's at a

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research university I think in Toronto,
or outside of Toronto.

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And so they cemented up all of these city rivers.

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And so there was a project I did with, you know, was music
and sound and architecture, and with the sacred music

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festival in Fez that we were documenting how the evolution of
that and how they're trying to open up the water areas I

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think it's always a water story, and
you're really fortunate here I

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mean it's abundant in comparison. Maybe you all can
in a conversation tell me more what it really is but from

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for me coming from different places I think it feels
much more abundant than other areas.

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(François) If we're talking about the Vancouver, the
lower mainland specifically,

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there's been a remapping of the waterways that have
been buried by urban development.

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And, and actually a lot of work has been done
to maybe resurface these waterways

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or to protect them, or at least the ones that
are still left that that are there.

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It's kind of interesting that it coincides with this type of
thing. But what would be your impressions of, so far, of

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what you're hearing here, what you're
witnessing here that stands.

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What are the unique aspects of this region.

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And how does that translate into your thoughts musically
and how you're organizing these thoughts.

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(Susie) Oh my goodness. Well I'm no expert.

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But I think in the region here in the northwest, one of
the amazing things also is that it's really large.

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You know, it is really large in scale when looking at

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different areas you know, listening and
how it opens up to the ocean.

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It's different than if I'm recording the ocean and like the south
of Spain, something that's more gentle, a little more

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tucked in but it, I find that the
mountains are larger and in

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that way, the frequencies are different
because it's connected

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to the trees. I mean, it's really amazing. The ecology of trees
here in Vancouver is very special. Yeah. And what I

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find when I'm in larger forests is that these frequencies
they get a lot lower and are more prevalent to hear.

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But everything gets larger, you know, it's sort of, you become
a little more immersed. It's not, it's not hard to find.

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It's not hard to find where is the sound,
what am I listening to.

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We just have to be present and realize, oh we are amidst
all of this and we're always amidst all of this.

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I think that's extraordinary here how Vancouver is built in

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this urban rainforest and next to the
ocean. So it's so present.

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(François) I just want to stir this in towards more of a music question.
What are your, how do you take all this information and

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document it and transcribe it and how, how does that become
the fabric of most of your compositional work?

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(Susie) Well, I guess in my practice, I guess I do love data.
You know, I think I do love the research side of it very

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much and it's like an equal practice for me in my creative

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practice so for me to be in the studio,
or if I'm on the field

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or if I'm on stage in performance, or if I'm installing, it's
all how in that moment, you know, what am I bringing

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compositionally or sound-wise into it
and developing that practice.

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So the research practice of what we've been talking about probably 
more on field at the moment of these, the natural

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environments, it's, it's as important, you know,
in a way it's like a large composition.

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Like how geomorphologists would scan and measure these large
spaces. And I think when I started to work with them,

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understanding that I realized my score was much larger and 
that there was such a physicality of the score and I'm very

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interested in the physicality of the score,
whether it comes into, I happen to

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be both the performer and composer, whether
it comes into us as performers or,

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also now literally the materiality and physicality of the score 
I'm interested in too, in that kind of physical sound,

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how sound passes through, you know, we're mostly listening
to us as humans, sound passing through air but like,

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it's fantastic passing through water. There's a
lot more of more probabilities and ways

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that sound can be heard moving through water or
it moves through ground and rock. I mean,

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metal, all these different things. There's different qualities to it, 
and I'm interested in that too.

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How does it come into my work?

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I mean, I think some of it's very
natural and some of it, if we are music and sound artists

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and composers, we're always looking for, well,
we have these, these tools of our ears.

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That are trained, right? It's different if I go out on field
with a sound team, which I always choose a sound team that

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also are musicians because there's certain
skills I'm looking for with

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the scientists because they're listening
for a totally different than us.

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Yeah, I think there's, with those kind, that kind of reference, we're going to hear it in certain ways

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we're going to look for certain things. And so how I, I think about placing it and organizing it, it

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also comes from a music and sound basis. 
So I might transcribe it in a few different ways.

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Also record it in different ways, just
to, just to see what it is.

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(François) Would you say that because you had formal training in playing the drum kit and studying and all that, and also engaging

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in this real anthropological approach to music, was unlearning ever a term that you would use to describe,

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how you've allowed your process to get to that point where
you're definitely walking off the beaten path?

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(Susie) I think we can walk off the beaten path, but we
don't have to unlearn. I think we can

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learn new things. And it doesn't have to be either
or. It can be this and this, you know?

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(François) So it's more of a rethinking.

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(Susie) Yeah, so I'd never think of it as, I personally have never thought
of it as an unlearning. I think of an openness to be

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able to learn new habits, training in new kinds of ways of
quantifying, qualifying data, right? And then its purpose

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and its use, how does it relate into the creative
studio? And it's also okay if it doesn't.

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It's still like, artists, we have a process. It doesn't mean
literally that that's going to end up in the score, in the

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installation, in the sound sculpture, or literally in the
classroom. But it is going to affect us, right?

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I mean, our environments are constantly affecting us, and
where we choose to live, to walk every day, and it's

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constantly affecting us, even if we
don't literally talk about it.

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(François) That brings to mind something that you said in the preface
of your book, that I just read the last couple days actually,

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And you talk about finding yourself,
or getting a deeper understanding of

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who you are, and in all aspects of life, and your
upbringing, and your musical opinion.

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I don't want to go too deep into that,
but at what point did you get a

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sense that you were starting to get a pretty
accurate picture of who you are?

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And I remember some performances with Pauline Oliveros, and
I would suspect that she would have had a very important

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role to play in pointing you in some directions,
in terms of the deep listening.

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And I wanted to ask you that, it's a very vague question,
but when I listened to the TANK recording, which I hope

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people can share the link to this, it's a fantastic

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performance, where it's more than 40 seconds,
45 seconds of reverb time.

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And you're playing the drums inside this thing.
And I remember the recordings in the

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Sistine Chapel with Stuart Dempster and Pauline,
and Bill Smith had a lot to do with that.

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I'm just throwing that at you, just to
find out when was it that you had

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a sense of purpose in pursuing this, and
to sound ecology and all that.

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(Susie) Resonance? Are we talking about resonance?

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(François) About resonance, about deep listening,
about connection to nature.

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(Susie) Big question, François. 

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(François) I'm sorry!

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(Susie) I think there's like eight questions.

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I might have to answer them in several
steps. Paulina Oliveros was a

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dear friend of mine, and mentor and her
spouse, Ione, who's still alive.

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And I used to live near them actually in New
York, but Pauline and I are also from

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Houston, our families. I was just there visiting
my elderly parents, it was so hot.

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I was really grateful to have the time between
concerts to go see them. And I

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visited the Buffalo Bayou Cistern, which
is underground, it's extraordinary.

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It's about a football field-and-a-half
big, and with resonance, which

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we're discussing a piece in there, in
conjunction with the Rothko Chapel.

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These were these extraordinary, I just
was visiting this Cistern,

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which is very different from the TANK,
which is cylinder, cylinder-like.

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And I seem to be finding myself both in natural and built
environments, resonant spaces, you know, whether I'm in

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these large canyons, where you can have the resonance and

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like slapping maybe seven times off
of two of these large scale,

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places and it's interesting that reflection. But
with Pauline, it wasn't actually the Cistern.

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I just was very fortunate to meet her early on
and in the West Coast in San Francisco.

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And then she called me to play solo at Carnegie Hall.
And that's when I met her trio at the time.

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And we started, I actually knew Pauline, she also, you know,
obviously was a composer, and also an improviser.

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We were actually improvisers together. And it's funny because
a lot of my dear friends and colleagues who I work with

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now who are close to her and different more
in her scores, and but my

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personal relationship with her was as improvisers
in small ensemble bands together.

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And she also was very nurturing. She would always
check in on me, see how things are going.

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Yeah, as a young artist, how's it going? She
always had a sense of when to check

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in to when when it was needed, she would just
give a call. It was it was amazing.

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And then amazing the lineage of different people that I've
met that have been connected to her in different ways,

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whether they were also her peers and
colleagues like with Annea

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Lockwood or Claire Chase, who knew her
very young, very young also.

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But also, it's not just those are specific people as like actually
lots of people I could just travel the world and

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lots of people have stories. It's wonderful
that her scores and

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her tech scores really reached a lot
of people also non musicians.

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Yeah, the residence space and TANK, the TANK
Center for Sonic Arts in Colorado.

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It's great that you brought it up because actually my dear
friend Bill Frisell was the one who brought me into the

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TANK. Yeah, and with James Paul, the executive director,

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because he thought that my gong playing
would sound so cool in there.

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(François) Good move!

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(Susie) And then I was there for a residency and they asked me if I would
contemplate a larger work. There was no pressure, but

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I could. And they knew that
I was one of the first artists

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that had a practice that was both on the
field and also inside the TANK.

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So when I came for an artist residency,
just as a soloist, I did

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research on both. And that's when I decided
I'm just about to record a new work.

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Yeah, it's a it's an opera installation and I'll have a percussion
ensemble, a chorus, a girls chorus and my trio

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Talking Gong will be in that tank
and also out in the canyons.

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And then it's going to be recorded for installation.

00:22:52.041 --> 00:22:54.000
(François) Okay, yeah, wonderful.

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Do you want to play a little bit? 


00:22:56.666 --> 00:22:58.666
(Susie) Sure. 

00:22:58.666 --> 00:23:02.666
(François) And then we can talk some more? Because I'm sure everybody
would really enjoy that.

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And then maybe talk a little bit about your instruments for

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the ones who are not familiar with
your background and practice.

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(Susie) Now..or? 

00:23:16.166 --> 00:23:18.166
(François) No, I think no play now.

00:23:35.166 --> 00:23:37.166
(Susie) Could I invite you to play with me?

00:23:37.166 --> 00:23:40.166
(François) I would love to. That would be great.

00:23:41.166 --> 00:23:43.166
Thanks!

00:24:09:000 --> 00:29:36.250
(music)

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(audience applauding)

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(François) And in case you weren't aware, Susie's latest,

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well maybe it's not your latest composition at this point,

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but she recently was the recipient of the Pulitzer Prize.

200
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I just have to say that.

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It feels like it's the elephant in the room.

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(audience applauding)

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Congratulations.

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I think it's a really well deserved honour,

205
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but the significance of it,

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it goes way beyond the scope of what
Pulitzer is traditionally,

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which is about recognizing

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compositional excellence and artistry.

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But your work has

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encompasses so much more than that

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in terms of you really talking about the ecology,

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talking about bringing science and your research

213
00:31:01.125 --> 00:31:06.208
and trying to explain natural phenomena
and things like that.

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So what I would like to go from there

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00:31:10.625 --> 00:31:13.166
is that in the piece,

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00:31:15.375 --> 00:31:18.833
you've collaborated quite extensively with Claire Chase,

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00:31:19.750 --> 00:31:23.708
and brilliant flutist, she was I think the founder of ICE.

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00:31:24.791 --> 00:31:27.625
I forget what ICE stands for.

219
00:31:28.041 --> 00:31:29.041
(Susie) International Contemporary Ensemble.

220
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(François) Thank you.

221
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In the video performance at Ojai Festival,

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I don't even know if I pronounced Ojai...

223
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(Susie) Ojai. 

224
00:31:42.875 --> 00:31:44.333
(François) Ojai, yeah.
I knew I was saying it wrong.

225
00:31:44.958 --> 00:31:49.791
It was very evident that

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00:31:51.083 --> 00:31:56.000
the writing, the composition, really beautifully integrated

227
00:31:56.166 --> 00:31:58.958
all the sonic extended techniques

228
00:31:59.208 --> 00:32:01.916
that she's developed over the years.

229
00:32:02.083 --> 00:32:05.750
She's fantastic virtuosic flutist to me

230
00:32:06.208 --> 00:32:07.916
at the same level as Robert Dick

231
00:32:07.916 --> 00:32:10.666
and so many other great players, Nicole Mitchell.

232
00:32:11.541 --> 00:32:15.041
It seemed like you really found

233
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through this collaborative process

234
00:32:18.375 --> 00:32:22.500
a very concise language

235
00:32:22.791 --> 00:32:26.500
that borrows from bird songs,

236
00:32:27.333 --> 00:32:31.125
from contemporary extended repertoire for the flute.

237
00:32:32.333 --> 00:32:37.208
How did you manage to organize that in your score,

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like in terms of notation?

239
00:32:43.916 --> 00:32:48.041
Did you have to really go above and beyond

240
00:32:48.041 --> 00:32:50.208
what you were already used to

241
00:32:50.208 --> 00:32:52.833
in terms of graphic interface to accommodate

242
00:32:52.833 --> 00:32:56.666
these sonorities that you were both exploring together?

243
00:32:58.333 --> 00:32:59.833
(Susie) Thank you for asking that, François.

244
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Because composing the work,

245
00:33:03.458 --> 00:33:04.791
there's so many ways that we can communicate it, right?

246
00:33:04.833 --> 00:33:08.916
So there are certain things,

247
00:33:09.208 --> 00:33:11.708
if I'm making the score physically and writing it,

248
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:14.375
what I'm going to place in there

249
00:33:14.375 --> 00:33:18.333
so that the score has a life of its own.

250
00:33:20.083 --> 00:33:23.250
And it amazingly does have a life of its own.

251
00:33:23.250 --> 00:33:25.416
It's now like going into,

252
00:33:26.250 --> 00:33:28.500
maybe it'll be in a music library near you

253
00:33:28.500 --> 00:33:31.333
because it's actually currently right now going in

254
00:33:31.333 --> 00:33:32.958
with a large section of music

255
00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:35.875
a large section of my scores actually,

256
00:33:36.958 --> 00:33:38.333
in the process of all of this.

257
00:33:38.583 --> 00:33:44.708
But with Claire Chase on flutes and Alex Peh on piano,

258
00:33:45.500 --> 00:33:46.541
I guess it's been,

259
00:33:46.541 --> 00:33:49.833
we've been together this trio since 2017.

260
00:33:51.708 --> 00:33:54.708
And yeah, they're my brother and sister

261
00:33:54.916 --> 00:33:57.708
and just phenomenal artists.

262
00:33:58.333 --> 00:34:00.166
So our first album's "Talking Gong,"

263
00:34:00.166 --> 00:34:01.875
which was the first commissioned piece.

264
00:34:02.375 --> 00:34:04.208
And it is only trio.

265
00:34:04.875 --> 00:34:07.666
This piece, when I thought about it

266
00:34:07.666 --> 00:34:11.000
and they had talked to me about composing a new work

267
00:34:12.166 --> 00:34:14.666
and what I thought could be very special,

268
00:34:14.916 --> 00:34:17.166
one of the special things about this trio is we can,

269
00:34:17.875 --> 00:34:20.625
we do have a capacity there.

270
00:34:20.958 --> 00:34:23.500
We can bring in a lot of different guest artists and stuff.

271
00:34:23.500 --> 00:34:25.708
But I also love string quartets very much.

272
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I think that really-- 

00:34:27.666 --> 00:34:28.500
(François) JACK String Quartet.

273
00:34:28.500 --> 00:34:30.166
(Susie) JACK was the string quartet,

274
00:34:30.791 --> 00:34:33.000
did the West Coast California premiere,

275
00:34:34.041 --> 00:34:35.375
Bergamot String Quartet,

276
00:34:35.375 --> 00:34:36.875
it's a young string quartet in New York

277
00:34:36.875 --> 00:34:38.916
that is going to be on this,

278
00:34:39.583 --> 00:34:41.666
that is on the album, which will be coming out.

279
00:34:41.958 --> 00:34:43.625
And that they did the world premiere.

280
00:34:44.416 --> 00:34:48.125
And I work with two other, Kronos and Arneis.

281
00:34:48.541 --> 00:34:51.500
I just, I think I love them as bands.

282
00:34:52.166 --> 00:34:53.916
String quartets, how they collectively think.

283
00:34:53.916 --> 00:34:56.000
So I think we can relate to that,

284
00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:58.625
talking here under umbrella of the coastal jazz

285
00:34:59.041 --> 00:35:01.375
in jazz language, like we understand that.

286
00:35:01.375 --> 00:35:04.875
And with a classical ensemble that
they operate like a band,

287
00:35:05.500 --> 00:35:07.958
I feel that that is very much so also.

288
00:35:08.250 --> 00:35:10.875
(François) They are really transforming the perception

289
00:35:10.875 --> 00:35:12.416
of what a string quartet is.

290
00:35:12.875 --> 00:35:15.166
(Susie) So it's a double band.

291
00:35:15.416 --> 00:35:17.833
And I brought in an additional percussion for,

292
00:35:18.041 --> 00:35:20.375
because I wanted to have a symmetry in "Sky Islands."

293
00:35:21.041 --> 00:35:23.416
So sky islands are these places,

294
00:35:23.416 --> 00:35:24.708
I mean, I don't know if anyone knows

295
00:35:24.708 --> 00:35:26.208
what a Sky Island is actually,

296
00:35:26.208 --> 00:35:27.541
I don't have to explain it if.

297
00:35:29.041 --> 00:35:29.500
(Audience member) Dark places.

298
00:35:30.458 --> 00:35:31.666
(Susie) Did you say dark places?

299
00:35:33.500 --> 00:35:37.708
They're actually high altitude mountain region areas.

300
00:35:37.708 --> 00:35:39.541
And they're in a few places in the world.

301
00:35:40.708 --> 00:35:42.541
The Philippines is one of the places

302
00:35:43.166 --> 00:35:44.458
and the north island Luzon.

303
00:35:45.250 --> 00:35:47.708
And so they're also rainforests,

304
00:35:47.708 --> 00:35:50.416
but they're the high altitude.

305
00:35:51.250 --> 00:35:55.250
And I felt there's such magical places

306
00:35:55.375 --> 00:35:57.916
because there's not a lot of us there.

307
00:35:57.958 --> 00:35:59.041
There's not a lot of humans.

308
00:36:01.958 --> 00:36:03.833
So many things can actually happen

309
00:36:03.833 --> 00:36:06.791
that aren't happening in a lot of places in the world.

310
00:36:07.208 --> 00:36:08.708
The way that it grows,

311
00:36:08.958 --> 00:36:14.958
the way that smaller animals are evolving there

312
00:36:15.083 --> 00:36:17.083
and the flora and the fauna.

313
00:36:17.083 --> 00:36:19.916
And I felt that was very magical.

314
00:36:19.916 --> 00:36:23.625
And also they're becoming increasingly
more important places

315
00:36:23.833 --> 00:36:25.041
as our climate is changing.

316
00:36:25.833 --> 00:36:27.375
So I wanted to write a piece

317
00:36:27.583 --> 00:36:29.000
that was in tribute to that.

318
00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:31.500
And I thought of this instrumentation

319
00:36:31.500 --> 00:36:33.208
as a kind of double ensemble.

320
00:36:35.750 --> 00:36:37.833
And Claire is an extraordinary soloist.

321
00:36:37.833 --> 00:36:40.166
So I know that I can write certain things,

322
00:36:40.166 --> 00:36:43.458
but I also know that I can ask of that

323
00:36:44.125 --> 00:36:48.083
and then that she can have her intuition in the passages.

324
00:36:48.416 --> 00:36:49.375
I mean, just knowing,

325
00:36:49.833 --> 00:36:52.000
having performed so many composers works,

326
00:36:53.041 --> 00:36:56.500
having that ability to step into that.

327
00:36:56.541 --> 00:36:58.916
And also Alex is a phenomenal pianist.

328
00:36:58.916 --> 00:37:00.500
That part is very hard,

329
00:37:01.291 --> 00:37:03.708
what he is playing.

330
00:37:04.000 --> 00:37:08.375
I'm so grateful for that.

331
00:37:08.375 --> 00:37:09.416
But also has tremendous,

332
00:37:10.125 --> 00:37:12.625
he's a Malaysian, Malaysian-American.

333
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:13.791
He was born in Malaysia

334
00:37:14.083 --> 00:37:17.708
and he plays a lot of different composers works,

335
00:37:19.666 --> 00:37:20.500
not just mine,

336
00:37:20.500 --> 00:37:22.208
but also from Southeast Asia

337
00:37:22.375 --> 00:37:25.125
and Sandaya music from Myanmar.

338
00:37:26.291 --> 00:37:28.250
And Thai music,

339
00:37:28.541 --> 00:37:30.708
but it has a great sense of rhythm.

340
00:37:32.083 --> 00:37:34.416
And so for this trio,

341
00:37:34.833 --> 00:37:36.375
it's great for me because one,

342
00:37:36.625 --> 00:37:38.666
I love to also write for piano.

343
00:37:38.666 --> 00:37:41.041
That's something that I love to do.

344
00:37:41.791 --> 00:37:44.583
And piano is my first instrument.

345
00:37:45.875 --> 00:37:46.041
Yeah.

346
00:37:46.583 --> 00:37:48.125
And just stayed with me.

347
00:37:49.250 --> 00:37:50.666
(Susie) I could almost see the iPad,

348
00:37:51.375 --> 00:37:52.958
the notation on the music,

349
00:37:52.958 --> 00:37:55.208
which seemed to be mostly through-written.

350
00:37:55.833 --> 00:37:58.875
From the video that I saw.

351
00:37:59.708 --> 00:38:01.083
And that begs the question

352
00:38:01.083 --> 00:38:04.458
of how much of the composition involves improvisation.

353
00:38:05.041 --> 00:38:06.833
Because there's some sections I think that Claire

354
00:38:06.833 --> 00:38:09.791
was obviously improvising when she sits on the pillow

355
00:38:09.791 --> 00:38:10.916
in the middle of the stage.

356
00:38:11.541 --> 00:38:13.041
And she's taking some of the material

357
00:38:13.041 --> 00:38:15.125
and expanding on it, I imagine.

358
00:38:15.500 --> 00:38:16.500
Is that accurate?

359
00:38:16.500 --> 00:38:17.333
(Susie) Yes, and the string quartet also.

360
00:38:18.125 --> 00:38:23.083
And Alex and us the two percussionists also,

361
00:38:23.125 --> 00:38:24.875
Levy Lorenzo.

362
00:38:25.333 --> 00:38:26.958
So it's both.

363
00:38:27.625 --> 00:38:30.291
It's really, I think it's interesting, François.

364
00:38:30.500 --> 00:38:32.541
I think it goes back to your earlier question

365
00:38:33.958 --> 00:38:36.416
that it is this and it's this.

366
00:38:36.916 --> 00:38:37.500
It's both.

367
00:38:38.208 --> 00:38:40.083
There's a lot of heavily scored parts.

368
00:38:40.083 --> 00:38:43.333
And there's also a lot of areas that invite

369
00:38:43.333 --> 00:38:48.625
and ask of the players to really
bring their unique presence

370
00:38:48.833 --> 00:38:51.500
and improvise in these passages

371
00:38:52.208 --> 00:38:53.708
with these kinds of contexts.

372
00:38:54.875 --> 00:38:58.500
(François) And we're seeing more and more classically trained players

373
00:38:58.625 --> 00:39:00.916
trusting that process, that collaborative process,

374
00:39:00.916 --> 00:39:02.000
and engaging in that.

375
00:39:02.916 --> 00:39:08.708
And I find that the piece is a beautiful synthesis.

376
00:39:09.416 --> 00:39:10.125
(Susie) Oh, thank you.

377
00:39:10.500 --> 00:39:12.625
(François) They're not just two distinct worlds anymore.

378
00:39:12.625 --> 00:39:14.166
They definitely coexist.

379
00:39:15.833 --> 00:39:18.250
And it seems to be the ethos of the time.

380
00:39:18.875 --> 00:39:19.875
And I know personally,

381
00:39:20.333 --> 00:39:22.250
I've worked towards that for a long time,

382
00:39:22.791 --> 00:39:24.125
working with composers,

383
00:39:24.125 --> 00:39:28.666
but also collaborating in a sense where there's,

384
00:39:29.208 --> 00:39:33.500
it's not an, the ego is not the centre of it.

385
00:39:33.500 --> 00:39:36.375
It's not developing a personal language,

386
00:39:36.583 --> 00:39:40.291
but to share in the possibilities of that language.

387
00:39:41.458 --> 00:39:47.375
And that's why I was asking about the notation process earlier.

388
00:39:48.208 --> 00:39:48.500
(Susie) Oh, yes.

389
00:39:49.500 --> 00:39:55.333
(François) You, this is a question that most musicologists

390
00:39:55.333 --> 00:39:57.708
would like to know because you're engaged with nature,

391
00:39:57.958 --> 00:39:59.750
listening to birds and this whole chapter

392
00:39:59.750 --> 00:40:01.250
and you spoke about the birds.

393
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:04.208
(Susie) Yes.

394
00:40:05.083 --> 00:40:08.375
And Saturday, my piece that's An Ecology of Rhythm,

395
00:40:08.750 --> 00:40:12.416
the ensemble of soloists are performing

396
00:40:13.166 --> 00:40:15.583
and they're really wonderful,

397
00:40:16.083 --> 00:40:20.083
is called "Bird Souls: Score for Flying."

398
00:40:20.791 --> 00:40:21.000
(François) Wonderful.

399
00:40:21.666 --> 00:40:23.708
I think we should all come and listen to that.

400
00:40:23.708 --> 00:40:25.083
And it will be live stream I hear,

401
00:40:25.083 --> 00:40:27.541
so there's no excuses for missing it.

402
00:40:29.875 --> 00:40:35.083
Did you ever go back to Messiaen's 
"Catalogue d'oiseaux"?

403
00:40:35.333 --> 00:40:36.958
or things like that for references

404
00:40:37.416 --> 00:40:43.041
in terms of how he notated bird songs and moving forward?

405
00:40:43.041 --> 00:40:45.250
(Susie) But I love Messiaen, but no.

406
00:40:46.250 --> 00:40:51.500
Actually, no, I think, but I do love the composer's work,

407
00:40:51.500 --> 00:40:52.875
but I never did.

408
00:40:53.166 --> 00:40:55.625
I think it's really a testament

409
00:40:55.958 --> 00:40:59.875
that bird songs are for everyone, right?

410
00:41:00.083 --> 00:41:02.333
And that they've been singing these a long time.

411
00:41:03.375 --> 00:41:04.416
(François) Is this that it's interesting

412
00:41:04.625 --> 00:41:06.333
that he pushed it to such a limit.

413
00:41:06.333 --> 00:41:09.250
I couldn't help but draw some parallel between your work

414
00:41:09.250 --> 00:41:10.750
and saying that you love data

415
00:41:11.500 --> 00:41:14.125
and how Messiaen actually created a catalogue

416
00:41:15.250 --> 00:41:19.083
and he was very, very precise at identifying the birds

417
00:41:19.083 --> 00:41:22.125
and its scores, especially the "Turangalîla-Symphonie."

418
00:41:23.166 --> 00:41:27.166
And whenever I found myself playing Messiaen's music,

419
00:41:27.750 --> 00:41:31.000
I would play a line, I would go,

420
00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:32.458
"Oh my God, that's a back bird,"

421
00:41:33.291 --> 00:41:36.500
or that's an oriole or whatever.

422
00:41:37.250 --> 00:41:39.791
I read it mostly in French because I grew up in Montreal.

423
00:41:40.958 --> 00:41:44.416
And when I was listening to Claire playing,

424
00:41:44.750 --> 00:41:47.416
I couldn't identify the birds specifically,

425
00:41:47.416 --> 00:41:49.000
but I could tell that there were definitely

426
00:41:49.166 --> 00:41:50.791
transliterations of bird songs.

427
00:41:51.583 --> 00:41:53.708
(Susie) Yes, then there was one piece we played at Ohio.

428
00:41:53.916 --> 00:41:56.125
It was a solo I wrote for her, "Sunbird"

429
00:41:56.125 --> 00:41:57.125
It's a Philippine bird.

430
00:41:57.708 --> 00:42:03.833
And then it was arranged for woodwinds,

431
00:42:04.041 --> 00:42:07.625
double flute, and alto sax, and bass clarinet.

432
00:42:08.291 --> 00:42:08.541
(François) Wonderful.

433
00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:13.333
(Susie) Yeah, I know it's fascinating.

434
00:42:13.791 --> 00:42:15.333
And as you say this, François,

435
00:42:15.541 --> 00:42:17.458
I kind of think of like, why didn't I?

436
00:42:18.625 --> 00:42:18.666
(François laughing)

437
00:42:18.666 --> 00:42:24.833
I think partially I come from a family that's in science.

438
00:42:25.375 --> 00:42:30.166
So maybe that's why I perhaps have felt very at home

439
00:42:30.833 --> 00:42:36.208
with discussing practices and research practices.

440
00:42:36.666 --> 00:42:40.958
And I just went directly to the source, right?

441
00:42:41.958 --> 00:42:45.291
But fortunate that we can, and also everybody here

442
00:42:45.625 --> 00:42:48.416
living in Vancouver can go to the source

443
00:42:48.583 --> 00:42:50.208
and listen and record.

444
00:42:51.625 --> 00:42:53.750
(François) Yes, now the field recording,

445
00:42:55.416 --> 00:42:57.708
just because we're there now.

446
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:02.791
Of course, we would have to be in a workshop process

447
00:43:02.791 --> 00:43:06.750
with you to find out your directions or recommendations

448
00:43:07.041 --> 00:43:08.083
on how to go about that.

449
00:43:08.916 --> 00:43:12.375
I walk around and every morning when I go for my walks,

450
00:43:12.375 --> 00:43:15.541
I just have my iPhone and I just grab whatever I can.

451
00:43:16.166 --> 00:43:18.125
(Susie) Beautiful, absolutely, absolutely.

452
00:43:18.125 --> 00:43:22.500
(François) You don't need to be an expert recorder engineer to do it.

453
00:43:22.541 --> 00:43:23.833
(Susie) You're recording as a reference.

454
00:43:24.541 --> 00:43:26.041
You're not recording for, well,

455
00:43:26.416 --> 00:43:28.250
but also if you were to put it into,

456
00:43:28.625 --> 00:43:31.458
I love really high fidelity things

457
00:43:31.458 --> 00:43:33.500
and I also like really low-fi things

458
00:43:33.833 --> 00:43:34.708
for different purposes.

459
00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:40.333
But as far as reference and anyone can go out and record.

460
00:43:40.333 --> 00:43:42.375
We were just discussing this here in Western Front,

461
00:43:43.083 --> 00:43:45.458
yes, to encourage, and also with everyone,

462
00:43:45.750 --> 00:43:49.041
all of the students and young artists in the workshop,

463
00:43:49.958 --> 00:43:51.250
that they can just take,

464
00:43:51.500 --> 00:43:53.041
because so many people have smartphones,

465
00:43:53.833 --> 00:43:55.583
can go out and just record.

466
00:43:56.625 --> 00:43:59.208
(François) Yeah, it's remarkable compared to where we were

467
00:43:59.208 --> 00:44:01.750
20 years ago when you had to buy a Sony Walkman

468
00:44:01.958 --> 00:44:05.916
and professional Sony with these black boxes

469
00:44:06.083 --> 00:44:08.958
and had to all a microphone around as well.

470
00:44:08.958 --> 00:44:10.125
Now we can just do it.

471
00:44:10.541 --> 00:44:12.541
(Susie) But then of course, if you really get into it,

472
00:44:12.750 --> 00:44:14.750
then like anything, like our instruments,

473
00:44:15.458 --> 00:44:17.583
then you start to stack it, right?

474
00:44:18.333 --> 00:44:20.500
And think, oh, I can listen to it this way,

475
00:44:20.500 --> 00:44:21.833
I could record it this way,

476
00:44:22.666 --> 00:44:25.291
I could, because the environment and the birds are,

477
00:44:26.166 --> 00:44:28.208
the nightingale is gonna be very different

478
00:44:28.916 --> 00:44:32.208
depending on where the Japanese nightingale

479
00:44:32.208 --> 00:44:34.541
and the Berlin nightingale, they sing differently,

480
00:44:34.791 --> 00:44:36.000
they have different songs.

481
00:44:37.291 --> 00:44:40.791
Also, a city bird here in Vancouver

482
00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:43.000
and one that's probably living out in Stanley

483
00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:44.583
is gonna have a different song.

484
00:44:45.666 --> 00:44:49.333
Yeah, so I mean, how do you record all the nuances

485
00:44:49.583 --> 00:44:52.333
and then just like performing,

486
00:44:52.583 --> 00:44:53.916
you would get into that

487
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:56.375
and want to have a great instrument, right?

488
00:44:57.250 --> 00:44:58.875
So, but you don't have to start out that,

489
00:44:58.875 --> 00:45:02.125
like you could just go and record.

490
00:45:02.791 --> 00:45:04.750
(François) Right, and that's an invitation.

491
00:45:05.125 --> 00:45:07.208
(Susie) And also, it does something different

492
00:45:07.375 --> 00:45:10.791
than while it's also wonderful to go out

493
00:45:10.791 --> 00:45:11.541
and walk and listen,

494
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:14.125
it is something different to be that intentional.

495
00:45:15.208 --> 00:45:17.666
And also if you have headphones on,

496
00:45:18.458 --> 00:45:19.875
well regardless if their over ears

497
00:45:19.875 --> 00:45:22.291
or the intentionality of that

498
00:45:22.750 --> 00:45:24.791
and what you're listening to and what that brings.

499
00:45:26.333 --> 00:45:28.041
And then there's the intentionality of also

500
00:45:28.375 --> 00:45:30.625
listening collectively is very different

501
00:45:30.625 --> 00:45:34.916
and recording collectively instead of alone is also--

502
00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:36.500
(François) Yeah, it becomes a communal experience

503
00:45:36.500 --> 00:45:38.000
as opposed to a personal one.

504
00:45:38.500 --> 00:45:39.125
(Susie) Yeah, it's very beautiful.

505
00:45:40.416 --> 00:45:40.958
(François) And that's where--

506
00:45:41.333 --> 00:45:42.500
(Susie) And it's really productive.

507
00:45:44.083 --> 00:45:47.583
Because if I'm not out on field with the sound team,

508
00:45:47.583 --> 00:45:50.458
I know that we're all collectively going to get

509
00:45:50.583 --> 00:45:53.166
different things in the environment,

510
00:45:53.500 --> 00:45:56.916
which can be very complex.

511
00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:00.250
I could have anxiety if it was just myself

512
00:46:00.958 --> 00:46:02.125
having to record all of that,

513
00:46:02.125 --> 00:46:03.416
I wouldn't be able to get everything.

514
00:46:03.916 --> 00:46:05.041
There's just so much going on.

515
00:46:05.500 --> 00:46:07.625
(François) But you still do that as well, I imagine.

516
00:46:08.041 --> 00:46:08.500
(Susie) Do it?

517
00:46:08.791 --> 00:46:09.791
(François) Do it by yourself.

518
00:46:11.541 --> 00:46:15.000
(Susie) Yes, I record on my own for certain things,

519
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:17.000
but if I'm going out to record,

520
00:46:19.166 --> 00:46:21.458
say, freshwater, source-to-sink,

521
00:46:21.708 --> 00:46:23.583
or I have a new project,

522
00:46:25.000 --> 00:46:27.291
it's an intergenerational project with my nephew,

523
00:46:27.500 --> 00:46:30.500
my oldest nephew, who's a paleoclimate scientist.

524
00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:34.291
And they've already been monitoring the hydroclimate

525
00:46:34.458 --> 00:46:36.041
in the Philippines in three caves,

526
00:46:37.083 --> 00:46:39.791
the stalagmites,

527
00:46:39.791 --> 00:46:44.500
and to prepare for monsoon seasons,

528
00:46:44.500 --> 00:46:46.791
because it's terrible in Southeast Asia.

529
00:46:47.166 --> 00:46:49.208
And I'm going to record with sound team.

530
00:46:49.208 --> 00:46:50.416
I would never go in there alone.

531
00:46:50.916 --> 00:46:54.000
And so these kinds of large projects,

532
00:46:54.291 --> 00:46:57.291
I'll bring a team in, and I will record,

533
00:46:57.750 --> 00:46:59.833
reconstruct these kinds of sonic caves,

534
00:47:00.250 --> 00:47:03.375
and also I'm going to be prototyping,

535
00:47:03.375 --> 00:47:06.458
reconstructing the lithophones for pitch.

536
00:47:07.625 --> 00:47:07.833
(François) Wonderful.

537
00:47:08.666 --> 00:47:13.625
I believe, I'm afraid we might be running low on time,

538
00:47:13.625 --> 00:47:15.458
but I believe that you had some images

539
00:47:15.791 --> 00:47:19.375
or some that you wanted to share.

540
00:47:19.833 --> 00:47:21.375
(Susie) Oh, um.

541
00:47:21.791 --> 00:47:22.708
(François) Correct me if I'm wrong.

542
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:26.416
(Susie) Sure, I mean, I had, because we were in workshop,

543
00:47:26.666 --> 00:47:28.666
I had my book on screen,

544
00:47:28.666 --> 00:47:31.041
and we were just discussing if it came up,

545
00:47:31.833 --> 00:47:33.666
"Rhythm and Nature: An Ecology of Rhythm"

546
00:47:34.541 --> 00:47:37.083
If it came up, I could show something,

547
00:47:37.333 --> 00:47:41.291
but I'm not sure, yeah.

548
00:47:41.333 --> 00:47:42.166
(François) Maybe it's not necessary.

549
00:47:42.583 --> 00:47:46.166
(Susie) Maybe that, well, you said that you lived near the ocean.

550
00:47:46.958 --> 00:47:48.666
Maybe we could show a little bit of,

551
00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:53.000
Ben, perhaps, I don't know what page it is on the ocean,

552
00:47:53.208 --> 00:47:56.458
and show the equation of the rhythm of a wave in motion,

553
00:47:56.666 --> 00:47:57.833
an ocean wave in motion,

554
00:47:58.875 --> 00:48:00.625
of thinking about and calculating

555
00:48:00.833 --> 00:48:02.250
what does that rhythm sound like,

556
00:48:02.625 --> 00:48:04.708
whether it's coming in close to the tide,

557
00:48:05.291 --> 00:48:06.583
or whether it's out in the ocean.

558
00:48:08.083 --> 00:48:10.708
You know, these are just different ways to listen,

559
00:48:11.750 --> 00:48:15.166
think about, and look at things that,

560
00:48:16.125 --> 00:48:18.041
perhaps we might look at it,

561
00:48:18.166 --> 00:48:20.625
whether it's nature, or it's music, or something.

562
00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:24.833
I mean, the combination of mathematics,

563
00:48:24.833 --> 00:48:26.500
which you asked, it's another,

564
00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:29.041
it's just another language, it's a way of,

565
00:48:29.458 --> 00:48:33.208
it's not the end all, the only way to look at it, and yeah.

566
00:48:33.458 --> 00:48:36.000
(François) I love the way the mapping on the page,

567
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:37.500
on how you showed the equation,

568
00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:41.333
and then you have your, the drum configuration,

569
00:48:42.083 --> 00:48:45.875
and then the cipher, the rhythm cipher.

570
00:48:45.916 --> 00:48:49.708
(Susie) It's great for shorthand notation, cipher notation,

571
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:53.166
which I got from gong music in the Philippines,

572
00:48:53.625 --> 00:48:56.625
and it's great for moving the gesture

573
00:48:56.916 --> 00:48:58.500
of where the note pitches are,

574
00:48:58.500 --> 00:49:01.500
so you could transcribe it with western music notation,

575
00:49:01.833 --> 00:49:05.125
and you could also transcribe it with number notation,

576
00:49:05.833 --> 00:49:09.291
and then can spatially map it,

577
00:49:10.041 --> 00:49:11.583
how you might wanna play it,

578
00:49:11.583 --> 00:49:14.208
and that would look different on your instrument.

579
00:49:14.208 --> 00:49:16.250
In my instrument, we spatially mapped

580
00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:19.000
where we wanted those personalities.

581
00:49:19.041 --> 00:49:22.541
(François) Yeah, we have our own system with keys and whatnot.

582
00:49:23.541 --> 00:49:27.541
(Susie) I'd be interested to hear and see you map it

583
00:49:27.541 --> 00:49:28.458
on your instrument.

584
00:49:29.125 --> 00:49:30.666
(François) I've been doing that for a while.

585
00:49:31.041 --> 00:49:31.250
(Susie) Okay.

586
00:49:31.750 --> 00:49:37.125
(François) It's mostly fingering cycles that are not part of the,

587
00:49:37.958 --> 00:49:40.000
you will never see them in a clarinet method,

588
00:49:40.250 --> 00:49:41.875
because they're non-conventional.

589
00:49:41.916 --> 00:49:43.500
I work with a venting system

590
00:49:44.166 --> 00:49:47.166
where there's about 23 holes

591
00:49:47.583 --> 00:49:49.291
cut into the tube of the clarinet,

592
00:49:50.500 --> 00:49:52.750
and you can do them sequentially

593
00:49:53.125 --> 00:49:55.500
so that you can get chromatic scale,

594
00:49:55.916 --> 00:49:58.416
or you can choose to open them,

595
00:49:58.791 --> 00:50:04.291
and when I was working with Evan Parker at the time,

596
00:50:05.125 --> 00:50:07.625
he showed me a little bit of how he approached it,

597
00:50:08.083 --> 00:50:10.875
and you end up getting a lot of unconventional sounds,

598
00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:14.541
because you're cutting the tone hole in different areas,

599
00:50:14.541 --> 00:50:16.333
just like if you were putting your finger

600
00:50:17.125 --> 00:50:18.625
on a violin on a string,

601
00:50:19.250 --> 00:50:21.000
and depending on where your finger is,

602
00:50:21.000 --> 00:50:22.500
you're gonna get different harmonics.

603
00:50:23.250 --> 00:50:27.291
So I call it sort of like a vertical clarinet.

604
00:50:27.625 --> 00:50:30.291
It's where we're, I'm not concerned with melody anymore,

605
00:50:30.500 --> 00:50:34.500
but I'm concerned with fractal possibilities,

606
00:50:35.166 --> 00:50:38.791
and rhythmic possibilities, because the first thing

607
00:50:38.875 --> 00:50:43.708
that I did when I got into that was how,

608
00:50:45.000 --> 00:50:47.583
if I don't think of this instrument as a clarinet,

609
00:50:47.583 --> 00:50:49.041
but as a musical interface,

610
00:50:49.666 --> 00:50:53.083
what if I tried to use, say, my index finger as drumsticks,

611
00:50:53.875 --> 00:50:55.583
and do a two against three pattern?

612
00:50:56.416 --> 00:50:59.416
Well, it's not gonna sound like a two against three

613
00:50:59.416 --> 00:51:01.916
on the drum, because you're gonna have all these artifacts

614
00:51:02.125 --> 00:51:05.833
in between each note, or in between each strokes,

615
00:51:06.583 --> 00:51:08.625
that allows you to get these fractals,

616
00:51:09.083 --> 00:51:15.208
did sort of what we call spectral elements that emerge.

617
00:51:16.083 --> 00:51:19.416
And that, it's opened up my practice completely.

618
00:51:19.416 --> 00:51:21.958
I did a little bit of that in our improvisation.

619
00:51:23.125 --> 00:51:24.791
But when I look at these equations,

620
00:51:25.750 --> 00:51:29.208
it's not, it's sort of like a little distant cousin

621
00:51:29.458 --> 00:51:32.541
of what I'm experiencing with my instrument,

622
00:51:33.375 --> 00:51:36.833
and it's led me to really practicing

623
00:51:37.125 --> 00:51:42.166
with snare drum rudiment patterns,

624
00:51:42.916 --> 00:51:45.083
and using different parts of my fingers,

625
00:51:45.333 --> 00:51:49.166
say my pinky will be the bass drum,
and et cetera, et cetera.

626
00:51:50.083 --> 00:51:52.083
(Susie) That's so beautiful, I love that.

627
00:51:52.500 --> 00:51:57.083
(François) It's fun, because you can only control it so much

628
00:51:57.291 --> 00:51:59.375
before it becomes a poetic practice,

629
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:02.750
where chance elements kick in,

630
00:52:03.166 --> 00:52:04.708
and then your ears take over,

631
00:52:05.125 --> 00:52:06.833
and your imagination takes over.

632
00:52:06.833 --> 00:52:12.333
It really, it becomes almost a meditative practice.

633
00:52:13.708 --> 00:52:15.750
My latest album is called "Meditations,"

634
00:52:16.125 --> 00:52:18.833
because it's all about this process that I've been doing

635
00:52:19.000 --> 00:52:20.250
for the last 25 years.

636
00:52:21.458 --> 00:52:24.833
And when I look at the definition,

637
00:52:25.208 --> 00:52:28.125
with the explanation towards the end of this chapter,

638
00:52:28.416 --> 00:52:30.083
it's so beautiful how you describe

639
00:52:31.083 --> 00:52:35.166
this long, slow time cycle,

640
00:52:35.875 --> 00:52:37.500
to describe what waves do.

641
00:52:38.333 --> 00:52:41.625
They unfold very quickly on shore,

642
00:52:42.208 --> 00:52:44.291
but they take kilometres and kilometres,

643
00:52:44.541 --> 00:52:46.166
and hours and hours to shape.

644
00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:50.708
And I love the end, yes, the sentence:

645
00:52:51.250 --> 00:52:54.083
"How can you calculate what this rhythm is?"

646
00:52:55.666 --> 00:52:58.583
That really fascinated, that resonated with me,

647
00:52:58.583 --> 00:53:03.375
because sometimes, I'm not even aware

648
00:53:03.541 --> 00:53:05.500
if there is a rhythmic cycle,

649
00:53:05.500 --> 00:53:07.708
but there is an everything that we do, I think.

650
00:53:07.708 --> 00:53:09.708
It's intrinsic to our lives,

651
00:53:09.708 --> 00:53:12.375
because of vibrational forces.

652
00:53:13.458 --> 00:53:21.250
And I loved how you finished that with the sentence,

653
00:53:21.250 --> 00:53:26.250
that means it's an inexhaustible well of ideas.

654
00:53:27.291 --> 00:53:30.458
(Susie)Especially in the ocean.

655
00:53:31.208 --> 00:53:34.500
It is repeating and resetting,

656
00:53:34.500 --> 00:53:38.125
and tied in and it really gives us a sense of how we're tied

657
00:53:38.125 --> 00:53:42.250
into a larger part of the landscape.

658
00:53:43.416 --> 00:53:46.291
It took me a while to actually call the ocean landscape,

659
00:53:47.208 --> 00:53:48.625
the geographers call it,

660
00:53:48.625 --> 00:53:51.333
because I always thought of it separately as the water,

661
00:53:51.333 --> 00:53:53.916
but it's also our water landscape.

662
00:53:55.958 --> 00:53:59.416
(François) I think maybe we should stop here,

663
00:53:59.416 --> 00:54:02.250
because I'm sure some people have questions or thoughts

664
00:54:02.250 --> 00:54:04.041
about all the things that we've covered.

665
00:54:05.750 --> 00:54:05.958
(Susie) Hi.

666
00:54:06.500 --> 00:54:08.250
(Audience member 1) A full circle, oh, sorry.

667
00:54:09.166 --> 00:54:10.083
A full circle.

668
00:54:11.541 --> 00:54:15.708
Opening up the underground streams is called daylighting,

669
00:54:16.083 --> 00:54:18.833
and we have a tradition in Vancouver.

670
00:54:19.500 --> 00:54:21.250
We're sitting at a place,

671
00:54:21.250 --> 00:54:26.250
the settlers called Brewer's Creek. And so
there's the intention to open up.

672
00:54:26.750 --> 00:54:29.000
Now, the past streams that have opened up already,

673
00:54:29.916 --> 00:54:31.333
salmon have come back.

674
00:54:31.958 --> 00:54:36.250
So it's like interrupted rhythm of nature,

675
00:54:36.666 --> 00:54:40.208
that when it's covered, the salmon disappear.

676
00:54:40.666 --> 00:54:42.666
When we open up, they come back.

677
00:54:43.333 --> 00:54:48.416
And so thinking of your ecology of rhythm,
that's the rhythm of nature coming back.


680
00:54:51.458 --> 00:54:53.541
And so I think it's so beautiful

681
00:54:54.208 --> 00:54:57.875
that we could explore that and know that

682
00:54:59.541 --> 00:55:01.791
those changes can make a difference,

683
00:55:01.875 --> 00:55:06.625
not just to make a park, but nature comes back as well.

684
00:55:07.333 --> 00:55:10.291
(Susie) Yes, because if we're trying to stop it,

685
00:55:10.291 --> 00:55:13.958
I mean, it will remember, just like water has a memory,

686
00:55:14.625 --> 00:55:16.041
in many ways, metaphorically,

687
00:55:16.041 --> 00:55:17.083
I think that is very beautiful,

688
00:55:17.416 --> 00:55:20.208
because it's constantly coming back the water.

689
00:55:20.541 --> 00:55:23.416
Even if we try to close up the area,

690
00:55:24.541 --> 00:55:29.875
or if we have built on areas that are more water areas,

691
00:55:30.541 --> 00:55:33.541
clearly, if the salmon is coming through here,

692
00:55:33.750 --> 00:55:35.166
these are water areas.

693
00:55:36.166 --> 00:55:37.583
That's so beautiful, thank you for sharing.

694
00:55:37.583 --> 00:55:40.500
(Audience member 1) Well, it's a symbol of abundance

695
00:55:40.833 --> 00:55:42.208
for the Indigenous people.

696
00:55:42.500 --> 00:55:42.750
(Susie) Yes.

697
00:55:42.791 --> 00:55:46.791
(Audience member 1) And I also appreciate that you mentioned about Rothko.

698
00:55:47.291 --> 00:55:52.750
And you used the word resonance about the music,

699
00:55:53.291 --> 00:55:56.083
but he has a visual resonance.

700
00:55:56.333 --> 00:56:00.000
And if it's that sort of sustained sound,

701
00:56:01.083 --> 00:56:05.041
his floating clouds have that visual parallel.

702
00:56:05.541 --> 00:56:07.291
And I could see that you're nodding

703
00:56:07.750 --> 00:56:10.375
and sort of can feel the same thing with that.

704
00:56:10.375 --> 00:56:11.333
So thank you for that.

705
00:56:11.375 --> 00:56:11.916
(Susie) Thank you.

706
00:56:12.583 --> 00:56:16.916
(Audience member 1) And Eve has a five o'clock solo event.

707
00:56:16.916 --> 00:56:19.375
I'll be going to as well, so thank you.

708
00:56:25.125 --> 00:56:27.666
(Audience member 2) Hello, thank you for--

709
00:56:27.708 --> 00:56:28.000
(Susie) Hi.

710
00:56:28.000 --> 00:56:29.791
(Audience member 2) Hi, thanks for your talk.

711
00:56:32.041 --> 00:56:35.083
You seem very into water in all of its forms,

712
00:56:35.458 --> 00:56:39.291
and I'm really curious where your water exploration

713
00:56:39.541 --> 00:56:42.000
is taking you next, and what kinds of water features

714
00:56:42.208 --> 00:56:43.208
you're looking at exploring.

715
00:56:44.791 --> 00:56:46.458
(Susie) Oh, thank you.

716
00:56:47.125 --> 00:56:50.750
Well, one is what I did mention with François

717
00:56:51.000 --> 00:56:54.083
is that I will be recording in three caves,

718
00:56:54.625 --> 00:56:55.791
three islands in the Philippines,

719
00:56:56.958 --> 00:56:58.708
Palawan in Puerto Princesa,

720
00:56:58.708 --> 00:57:01.583
which has a whole subterranean forest

721
00:57:01.708 --> 00:57:04.541
inside a 12 kilometre long river.

722
00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:07.916
At one point, there's a one kilometer in height

723
00:57:08.458 --> 00:57:09.375
inside the cave.

724
00:57:10.333 --> 00:57:15.416
And Biak-Na-Bato, which is in Luzon, the historical cave,

725
00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:19.291
with water during the Spanish colonial period.

726
00:57:19.541 --> 00:57:20.875
The Filipino army was in there,

727
00:57:20.875 --> 00:57:22.708
so it's a culturally historical area,

728
00:57:22.708 --> 00:57:24.500
but it's being monitored, it's waters.

729
00:57:25.916 --> 00:57:30.333
And Bohol Geopark, which is known on the outside,

730
00:57:30.333 --> 00:57:32.333
it looks like all of these chocolate hills,

731
00:57:32.666 --> 00:57:35.125
but underground, it's got a lot of cave systems.

732
00:57:35.750 --> 00:57:42.625
So that is actually a mountain-to-sea climate,

733
00:57:43.083 --> 00:57:46.833
but inside the caves that we are researching,

734
00:57:47.500 --> 00:57:50.958
and I'll be creating more of an instillative composition

735
00:57:51.166 --> 00:57:54.750
for that, and some sound sculptures, lithophones, yeah.

736
00:58:00.250 --> 00:58:02.750
(Audience member 3) Hi, thank you very much for your work,

737
00:58:02.750 --> 00:58:03.625
it's very exciting.

738
00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:04.666
(Susie) Thank you.

739
00:58:05.041 --> 00:58:09.750
(Audience member 3) I watched some video on Google about your project

740
00:58:09.750 --> 00:58:11.166
that you did with kids in Berlin.

741
00:58:11.666 --> 00:58:12.875
(Susie) Yes, I live in Berlin.

742
00:58:13.166 --> 00:58:18.291
(Audience member 3) And I'm wondering if there's modules or curriculums

743
00:58:18.291 --> 00:58:21.333
being created so that this work could be shared

744
00:58:21.458 --> 00:58:24.625
throughout the educational systems really worldwide.

745
00:58:26.666 --> 00:58:29.208
(Susie) Yes, actually, so I have my book, "Rhythm in Nature,"

746
00:58:29.708 --> 00:58:33.458
and I have brought it into many different places.

747
00:58:34.208 --> 00:58:38.375
This week, I'm with a young artist, 17 to 24,

748
00:58:38.458 --> 00:58:41.166
really talented, I hope you all will come at 1:00 p.m.

749
00:58:41.166 --> 00:58:44.500
on Saturday, because we've been doing so much great work

750
00:58:44.875 --> 00:58:47.500
every day to see what we're gonna present.

751
00:58:48.583 --> 00:58:51.625
And just for everybody else, I'll let them know,

752
00:58:51.875 --> 00:58:53.708
this is a project I was working with,

753
00:58:54.750 --> 00:58:57.750
A refugee school, the welcome school in former airport

754
00:58:57.875 --> 00:59:00.583
Tegel for Ukrainian children, this was

755
00:59:01.875 --> 00:59:05.583
elementary school kids, and then also in Germany,

756
00:59:05.583 --> 00:59:08.500
in Kreuzberg in Berlin, it's a more artistic school,

757
00:59:08.750 --> 00:59:12.166
so part of it was to bring, also to integrate

758
00:59:12.833 --> 00:59:16.375
the children together so that we had classes

759
00:59:16.541 --> 00:59:20.500
from both schools, and with Green Berlin

760
00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:24.625
Campus Stadt Naur, Grone Berlin, and Bauhaus.

761
00:59:25.791 --> 00:59:28.750
And so I had them on field with me,

762
00:59:28.750 --> 00:59:30.458
I had them doing scores, I had them playing

763
00:59:30.541 --> 00:59:32.250
instruments, we did a lot of stuff,

764
00:59:32.875 --> 00:59:35.958
because I think it was eight weeks we were in session.

765
00:59:37.041 --> 00:59:40.083
There's actually a documentary 20-minute video,

766
00:59:40.083 --> 00:59:42.083
if you all want to watch it, you can go on,

767
00:59:42.541 --> 00:59:46.333
either to my website, or susieibarra.com,

768
00:59:46.333 --> 00:59:49.416
or you can also go to the DAAD,

769
00:59:50.250 --> 00:59:52.916
artist in Berlin website also has the project,

770
00:59:53.500 --> 00:59:56.458
but it has been, I have workshopped this

771
00:59:56.458 --> 00:59:58.708
in many different forms, I was just talking to

772
00:59:59.875 --> 01:00:02.375
the director of Western Front, Susan Gibb,

773
01:00:02.375 --> 01:00:05.000
about how this comes into different communities,

774
01:00:05.250 --> 01:00:09.416
and its participatory nature, it really unfolds

775
01:00:09.708 --> 01:00:14.583
in different ways, whether I'm with students

776
01:00:14.583 --> 01:00:16.333
but in higher education, whether I'm with

777
01:00:16.375 --> 01:00:18.041
professional artists, or whether I'm with

778
01:00:18.125 --> 01:00:22.916
elementary school, those that are training specifically

779
01:00:24.083 --> 01:00:27.250
in music, or maybe there might be more

780
01:00:27.416 --> 01:00:32.375
of sound research, I did a lab with sound researchers,

781
01:00:32.791 --> 01:00:35.875
and that was also interesting to integrate it into that.

782
01:00:38.958 --> 01:00:41.083
But there's a curriculum for it,

783
01:00:41.083 --> 01:00:44.541
and it's really fascinating when it's,

784
01:00:45.291 --> 01:00:49.875
as the language, as it unfolds in different rooms,

785
01:00:49.875 --> 01:00:51.958
but thank you for asking, are you a teacher?

786
01:00:53.666 --> 01:00:57.208
(Audience member 3) I've sort of been involved in helping to program

787
01:00:57.333 --> 01:01:01.541
educational projects, and one project that I was involved

788
01:01:01.541 --> 01:01:04.041
with was one of the Dalai Lama's visits,

789
01:01:04.333 --> 01:01:07.958
and he was working with people at UBC,

790
01:01:08.958 --> 01:01:12.833
and his centre's educating the heart for children,

791
01:01:13.458 --> 01:01:15.958
and working at education and that,

792
01:01:15.958 --> 01:01:18.541
and so the way you worked with the children

793
01:01:18.791 --> 01:01:22.250
in Ukraine and Berlin, I don't know,

794
01:01:22.291 --> 01:01:24.666
just gets me excited and hoping that people

795
01:01:24.666 --> 01:01:27.375
are gonna connect, connect these things,

796
01:01:27.375 --> 01:01:28.333
and it'll flow more.

797
01:01:29.208 --> 01:01:32.333
(Susie) It was pretty amazing to have the privilege

798
01:01:32.333 --> 01:01:34.416
to work with them, I'm supposed to go back in

799
01:01:34.416 --> 01:01:37.875
and work with the middle schools,

800
01:01:38.583 --> 01:01:40.750
middle school, this was elementary school,

801
01:01:41.958 --> 01:01:44.333
and to hear their reflections on nature,

802
01:01:45.000 --> 01:01:48.000
having had to have this kind of forced migration

803
01:01:48.458 --> 01:01:52.791
into Germany, but also when we're talking about memory,

804
01:01:53.500 --> 01:01:56.791
the kind of memories that came up when they were

805
01:01:56.791 --> 01:02:00.083
on the field from their homes.

806
01:02:05.791 --> 01:02:09.416
(Audience member 4) Hey Susie, first time caller, long time big fan.

807
01:02:11.375 --> 01:02:15.291
I'm a bird nerd myself, I'm also a drummer, and--

808
01:02:15.833 --> 01:02:16.041
(Susie) Beautiful.

809
01:02:16.625 --> 01:02:19.250
(Audience member 4) I really love birds and bird song and stuff,

810
01:02:19.250 --> 01:02:22.500
but one thing I like to do is I often, maybe it's May,

811
01:02:22.500 --> 01:02:24.708
and we've got a lot of migrating birds coming through,

812
01:02:24.958 --> 01:02:27.375
and I'll just do a two or three minute recording

813
01:02:27.375 --> 01:02:30.208
and really sort of check out the interaction

814
01:02:30.208 --> 01:02:33.000
of different bird songs, but I was just curious,

815
01:02:33.500 --> 01:02:37.708
beyond the bird song itself, if there are other aspects

816
01:02:38.500 --> 01:02:43.458
that you might, that might inspire approaches or whatnot,

817
01:02:43.500 --> 01:02:47.000
I think sometimes just about the bird's behaviour

818
01:02:48.083 --> 01:02:51.791
and how that evolves, and sort of the interaction

819
01:02:51.958 --> 01:02:54.541
of let's say five different birds sharing a space

820
01:02:54.583 --> 01:02:58.500
for a period of time, I sometimes relate the story

821
01:02:58.500 --> 01:03:01.291
of going for longer bird walks, like two, three hours,

822
01:03:01.916 --> 01:03:04.125
and I used to get kind of nerdy about tracking,

823
01:03:04.125 --> 01:03:07.833
so I'd count all my birds, and I'd go two hours one way,

824
01:03:07.833 --> 01:03:10.666
and then I'd sort of come back, and as I'm coming back,

825
01:03:10.666 --> 01:03:13.333
I see there's the three mergansers again,

826
01:03:13.375 --> 01:03:15.125
and they've been slowly going down the river,

827
01:03:15.541 --> 01:03:18.208
and I hear the song sparrow, and I think,

828
01:03:18.208 --> 01:03:20.666
I wonder if that was the same one, it was around here,

829
01:03:20.666 --> 01:03:24.041
and I start to get a greater sense of the whole valley

830
01:03:24.166 --> 01:03:26.250
or wherever you might be, the whole place,

831
01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:28.791
and you can kind of sort of remember,

832
01:03:28.791 --> 01:03:30.750
yeah, I remember there was a hawk over there,

833
01:03:30.750 --> 01:03:32.958
and there's this over here, and it kind of gives me

834
01:03:32.958 --> 01:03:35.791
the sense of almost like being up above everything

835
01:03:35.791 --> 01:03:37.666
and having a greater sense of it,

836
01:03:37.666 --> 01:03:42.666
so I'm just curious about stuff other than the bird's song,

837
01:03:43.208 --> 01:03:46.916
itself, that might inspire, and then on top of that,

838
01:03:46.916 --> 01:03:49.500
I also wanted to ask if you also take inspiration

839
01:03:49.625 --> 01:03:53.916
from the plants and the fauna and stuff around as well.

840
01:03:55.750 --> 01:04:01.166
(Susie) Yes, yes, going back into the Berlin project,

841
01:04:01.166 --> 01:04:04.125
and also some of the research I've been doing

842
01:04:04.125 --> 01:04:06.958
in Germany and in the Baltic, I was working with two

843
01:04:06.958 --> 01:04:11.458
behaviour ecologists, and one was also an ornithologist,

844
01:04:11.500 --> 01:04:13.333
Marion East and Heribert Hofer,

845
01:04:14.041 --> 01:04:18.125
the top behaviour ecologist in Germany,

846
01:04:18.125 --> 01:04:20.750
I was so fortunate to become friends with,

847
01:04:21.583 --> 01:04:26.041
and that was actually very helpful in my recording,

848
01:04:26.916 --> 01:04:31.250
field recordings and going out into new territories,

849
01:04:31.500 --> 01:04:35.375
but certainly, I've been enamoured by the hummingbird,

850
01:04:35.375 --> 01:04:37.958
you've got the Anna hummingbird here, right?

851
01:04:38.500 --> 01:04:41.000
And how the hummingbird is one of the birds

852
01:04:41.250 --> 01:04:44.291
I think one of the only birds that flies backwards,

853
01:04:45.583 --> 01:04:46.833
I don't know if there's other birds

854
01:04:46.833 --> 01:04:48.250
that know how to fly backwards,

855
01:04:48.750 --> 01:04:52.833
but so that behaviour, I've been really intrigued,

856
01:04:53.208 --> 01:04:56.500
I have a hummingbird piece, it's a solo drum set piece

857
01:04:56.500 --> 01:05:00.666
called "Kolubrí," and that was inspired by the behaviour

858
01:05:01.333 --> 01:05:05.500
as much as or even more than the song of the hummingbird.

859
01:05:07.791 --> 01:05:10.416
And yes, going back to the children's project,

860
01:05:10.500 --> 01:05:13.625
we also had them listening to and playing,

861
01:05:13.625 --> 01:05:14.916
Re-sonified mushrooms,

862
01:05:15.291 --> 01:05:17.958
because there was a lot of mushrooms on this field,

863
01:05:19.000 --> 01:05:21.125
and mushrooms have great pitches.

864
01:05:23.041 --> 01:05:26.250
So that was a big hit, the mushrooms,

865
01:05:26.625 --> 01:05:29.791
and what they call, heidegras, which is,

866
01:05:30.208 --> 01:05:33.000
I think it's heather, it's heather yet?

867
01:05:35.041 --> 01:05:37.125
So those were part of the themes

868
01:05:37.125 --> 01:05:39.916
and part of the sound for that particular project,

869
01:05:40.083 --> 01:05:43.875
because it was a low grass terrain that we were in,

870
01:05:43.875 --> 01:05:47.000
and then we decided to make music out of it.

871
01:05:47.541 --> 01:05:50.333
But just with the workshop here,

872
01:05:50.333 --> 01:05:51.500
we were just recording trees,

873
01:05:52.083 --> 01:05:57.625
so they are making certain polyrhythmic compositions

874
01:05:58.000 --> 01:06:00.166
that are gonna integrate the whole suite

875
01:06:00.541 --> 01:06:02.083
that are connected to the cycle

876
01:06:02.083 --> 01:06:03.750
of the tree fractals in Stanley.

877
01:06:05.125 --> 01:06:07.916
Yeah, so I'm really taken aback

878
01:06:08.125 --> 01:06:10.041
by the trees here in Vancouver.

879
01:06:10.333 --> 01:06:11.708
I think they're really special.

880
01:06:15.291 --> 01:06:17.583
(François) I just wanted to say a few years ago,

881
01:06:17.708 --> 01:06:21.416
I took some European colleagues and Jerry

882
01:06:22.500 --> 01:06:26.000
to Cathedral Forest on Vancouver Island.

883
01:06:26.583 --> 01:06:28.458
I'm hoping that you might have some time.

884
01:06:28.833 --> 01:06:30.416
I would love to take you there,

885
01:06:31.041 --> 01:06:33.916
because they're some 800 years old

886
01:06:33.916 --> 01:06:35.333
and 1,000 year old trees.

887
01:06:35.333 --> 01:06:36.375
Oh my goodness.

888
01:06:37.333 --> 01:06:41.875
They're gigantic, but you feel their presence for sure.

889
01:06:42.875 --> 01:06:43.708
That would be a treat.

890
01:06:46.500 --> 01:06:48.791
Unless there's more question, yes.

891
01:06:50.250 --> 01:06:55.250
(Audience member 5) I'm sorry, I'm really uneducated in this field, but can you explain a bit more

892
01:06:55.375 --> 01:06:58.208
how things like rocks and trees make sound?

893
01:06:58.958 --> 01:07:02.333
Like, I don't really understand how that happens.

894
01:07:04.541 --> 01:07:05.166
(Susie) Do you wanna start?

895
01:07:05.916 --> 01:07:06.083
(François) No.

896
01:07:07.875 --> 01:07:10.500
(laughing) 
(Susie) Okay, I did give you the end,

897
01:07:10.750 --> 01:07:13.458
because we're wrapping and that was a huge question.

898
01:07:14.000 --> 01:07:15.541
I was like, where do we start?

899
01:07:15.958 --> 01:07:19.375
Can I, let me see if I can just give a little in,

900
01:07:19.375 --> 01:07:24.083
because I think we could have an entire discussion on this.

901
01:07:24.083 --> 01:07:25.333
(François) We could be here for a while.

902
01:07:27.375 --> 01:07:27.750
(Susie) Yeah.

903
01:07:30.208 --> 01:07:35.125
So I'll just take two examples of rocks and stones.

904
01:07:36.000 --> 01:07:38.583
And one is in combination with water.

905
01:07:39.708 --> 01:07:44.541
And when I started to record source down to,

906
01:07:44.875 --> 01:07:47.541
like mountain down to sea climate,

907
01:07:48.166 --> 01:07:50.458
and recording the river systems,

908
01:07:50.458 --> 01:07:51.833
the freshwater river systems.

909
01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:56.000
And I was working with glaciologists

910
01:07:56.000 --> 01:07:58.208
to understand that like the pitches of these stones,

911
01:07:59.083 --> 01:08:00.750
you can hear it and it also will tell

912
01:08:00.916 --> 01:08:02.500
how the river has deviated.

913
01:08:02.750 --> 01:08:04.333
That's also very fascinating to me.

914
01:08:04.958 --> 01:08:06.333
I'm like musically more interested

915
01:08:06.333 --> 01:08:07.666
in the pitches of the stones,

916
01:08:08.250 --> 01:08:09.958
whether they're on the river system,

917
01:08:10.416 --> 01:08:12.250
or if you're up at the top of,

918
01:08:12.250 --> 01:08:17.625
could be an ice cave, it could be
a tropical rainforest cave,

919
01:08:17.625 --> 01:08:19.916
but the pitches in an ice cave are fun,

920
01:08:20.208 --> 01:08:22.000
or in caves are fantastic.

921
01:08:24.583 --> 01:08:27.958
And so it's often, it's engaging in with the water,

922
01:08:28.375 --> 01:08:30.333
but also some of these stones,

923
01:08:30.583 --> 01:08:32.750
depending on what the material they're made of,

924
01:08:33.458 --> 01:08:37.125
not all stones are like this, are like lithophones.

925
01:08:38.083 --> 01:08:40.500
So you know them more as modern instruments,

926
01:08:40.500 --> 01:08:42.916
like you've seen a marimba in percussion,

927
01:08:43.500 --> 01:08:47.458
or like xylophones or stuff,

928
01:08:47.958 --> 01:08:49.833
that seems more, it's more formal, right?

929
01:08:50.416 --> 01:08:52.416
But not all of the rocks are like that,

930
01:08:52.416 --> 01:08:53.666
but some of them are,

931
01:08:53.666 --> 01:08:55.875
they are really pitched in that same way.

932
01:08:58.333 --> 01:09:00.666
Depends that they're made out of all different kinds,

933
01:09:01.625 --> 01:09:04.875
kinds of stone, yeah.

934
01:09:05.541 --> 01:09:07.875
So those are some of the ways of stones.

935
01:09:08.208 --> 01:09:10.041
(François) If you strike them, obviously,

936
01:09:10.291 --> 01:09:11.958
or if you hit two stones together,

937
01:09:14.250 --> 01:09:16.583
it's sort of like an anthropomorphized way

938
01:09:16.875 --> 01:09:19.041
of saying that rocks make sound,

939
01:09:19.541 --> 01:09:24.083
but I guess that's where the confusion might be,

940
01:09:25.041 --> 01:09:30.000
in terms of understanding the sound
of this fabric, I guess.

941
01:09:30.500 --> 01:09:31.833
(Susie) Oh, in trees, you're asking about trees,

942
01:09:31.833 --> 01:09:33.250
that's another really big question,

943
01:09:33.875 --> 01:09:35.375
but also they're rooted in,

944
01:09:35.375 --> 01:09:37.291
so there are systems, you can hear that,

945
01:09:37.291 --> 01:09:39.375
I mean, sometimes you can hear also the water system

946
01:09:39.375 --> 01:09:41.791
in there, and obviously there's little things

947
01:09:41.791 --> 01:09:43.500
that are living in there, you can hear it,

948
01:09:43.791 --> 01:09:46.000
but there are frequencies, you can hear it,

949
01:09:46.458 --> 01:09:49.208
or even if I record it, I can take it back

950
01:09:49.208 --> 01:09:51.833
and I can turn it up and hear where those frequencies are,

951
01:09:52.083 --> 01:09:54.750
even if I can't initially hear it on a contact mic,

952
01:09:56.708 --> 01:09:58.708
but in larger forests, you really can.

953
01:09:59.750 --> 01:09:59.958
Yeah.

954
01:10:02.625 --> 01:10:03.458
Thank you for that.

955
01:10:07.000 --> 01:10:08.875
(François) There's, we'll take one more question.

956
01:10:10.208 --> 01:10:13.166
There's one back there, somebody hasn't spoken there,

957
01:10:13.500 --> 01:10:15.833
and then, oh, you already have the microphone, okay,

958
01:10:15.833 --> 01:10:18.458
well, let's make sure we get to the gentleman over there.

959
01:10:19.083 --> 01:10:19.250
(Susie) Hi.

960
01:10:19.875 --> 01:10:24.916
(Audience member 6) Yeah, given that you were born in California,

961
01:10:25.541 --> 01:10:26.041
(Susie) I was.

962
01:10:26.625 --> 01:10:29.375
(Audience member 6) How much does your Philippine heritage,

963
01:10:29.750 --> 01:10:33.416
influence your music, and when did you start

964
01:10:35.166 --> 01:10:37.875
sort of reconnecting to your roots in the Philippines?

965
01:10:38.583 --> 01:10:39.583
(Susie) Thank you for that,

966
01:10:40.500 --> 01:10:46.625
Maraming salamat. Yeah, so I
was born in Southern California,

967
01:10:47.708 --> 01:10:50.625
and my parents and my siblings are from Manila,

968
01:10:51.458 --> 01:10:56.125
and Bulacan, Tarlac, up near, also close to Kalinga,

969
01:10:56.250 --> 01:11:01.458
Luzon, and I went back visiting family,

970
01:11:01.458 --> 01:11:06.166
but I think I didn't start as an artist-researcher

971
01:11:06.583 --> 01:11:09.458
and coming back and connecting artistically and creatively,

972
01:11:09.958 --> 01:11:13.291
and also environmentally to the islands.

973
01:11:13.708 --> 01:11:17.041
It was maybe just under two decades ago,

974
01:11:17.833 --> 01:11:21.416
so I feel really, I was really touched

975
01:11:21.625 --> 01:11:25.041
that the piece "Sky Islands" was recognized in this way,

976
01:11:25.583 --> 01:11:29.041
globally, because I first started researching

977
01:11:29.291 --> 01:11:31.333
in these high altitude rain forests,

978
01:11:32.250 --> 01:11:37.458
maybe like 18 years ago, yeah.

979
01:11:39.375 --> 01:11:42.791
But it was actually more, it was more musical.

980
01:11:43.500 --> 01:11:48.583
I worked a lot with traditional music, musica katutubo
a lot of Indigenous work,

983
01:11:49.166 --> 01:11:51.333
maybe like seven Indigenous groups I worked with

984
01:11:51.500 --> 01:11:58.916
and Luzon, Palawan, Bohol, Visayas, Mindanao, yeah.

985
01:12:02.208 --> 01:12:02.458
Yes.

986
01:12:03.083 --> 01:12:04.333
(Audience member 7) Hello, yeah, thanks, Susie,

987
01:12:04.333 --> 01:12:05.916
for all your talking, for sharing,

988
01:12:06.291 --> 01:12:09.125
and François, for your really inquisitive questions.

989
01:12:10.083 --> 01:12:12.916
Yeah, I was just curious, you were mentioning

990
01:12:13.750 --> 01:12:17.166
going to the source of things, for example, like listening

991
01:12:17.500 --> 01:12:19.375
to the birds, and that makes me think about,

992
01:12:20.375 --> 01:12:22.208
I guess, the documentary of Milford Graves,

993
01:12:23.166 --> 01:12:25.625
him going to the source of the mantis,

994
01:12:26.125 --> 01:12:28.041
and I don't know where I read it, maybe it's--

995
01:12:28.083 --> 01:12:30.875
(Susie) That's beautiful you mentioned that,
I love that, thank you.

996
01:12:31.208 --> 01:12:35.500
(Audience member 7) And so I'm curious, just about if you had any relationship

997
01:12:35.500 --> 01:12:38.333
with Milford Graves, like I heard from, or,

998
01:12:38.333 --> 01:12:41.458
I read something about maybe you studied with him

999
01:12:41.458 --> 01:12:42.208
at some point, and--

1000
01:12:42.375 --> 01:12:43.458
(Susie) He's one of my mentors.

1001
01:12:43.958 --> 01:12:47.000
(Audience member 7) And so if you were to be able to share one thing

1002
01:12:47.000 --> 01:12:48.125
you may have learned from him,

1003
01:12:48.125 --> 01:12:49.916
that you still carry on with you,

1004
01:12:50.083 --> 01:12:51.666
that would be really interesting to know.

1005
01:12:53.000 --> 01:12:54.458
(Susie) That's really lovely.

1006
01:12:56.375 --> 01:12:58.541
Milford Graves is one of my mentors, yes,

1007
01:12:58.708 --> 01:13:00.708
and specifically one of my percussion mentors.

1008
01:13:01.500 --> 01:13:05.333
So I know that people studied a lot of things with him,

1009
01:13:05.666 --> 01:13:08.791
I studied drums, so I carry a lot with him,

1010
01:13:08.958 --> 01:13:11.666
from him and me, yeah, a lot of language,

1011
01:13:11.875 --> 01:13:13.416
I think I was very fortunate that way,

1012
01:13:13.416 --> 01:13:15.250
because people ask me, did you study,

1013
01:13:15.250 --> 01:13:16.500
I'm like, I studied drums,

1014
01:13:17.375 --> 01:13:18.791
I used to study drums in his house.

1015
01:13:19.958 --> 01:13:24.500
And yeah, I feel very lucky,

1016
01:13:24.500 --> 01:13:25.750
but I knew a lot of the people

1017
01:13:25.750 --> 01:13:29.083
that were studying acupuncture and herbalists,

1018
01:13:29.375 --> 01:13:34.375
this was also before he even moved into his large work

1019
01:13:34.958 --> 01:13:40.000
of heartbeats, so thank you for bringing that up.

1020
01:13:40.666 --> 01:13:45.333
I definitely, with all of my mentors,

1021
01:13:47.208 --> 01:13:49.541
I always carry them with me.

1022
01:13:50.333 --> 01:13:53.208
We are always, always standing on the shoulders

1023
01:13:53.666 --> 01:13:56.041
of a lot of great people who've come before us,

1024
01:13:56.291 --> 01:13:59.500
it's always important to be grateful.

1025
01:14:00.125 --> 01:14:02.375
And yeah, so that's really fun

1026
01:14:02.375 --> 01:14:04.333
that you brought him into the room, thank you.

1027
01:14:09.291 --> 01:14:13.875
(François) Thank you so much Susie for spending this time with us.

1028
01:14:14.458 --> 01:14:15.458
(audience applauding)

1029
01:14:20.625 --> 01:14:21.500
(Susie) Thank you, François.

1030
01:14:21.833 --> 01:14:25.333
(François) Maybe, just to conclude, maybe to remind people

1031
01:14:25.333 --> 01:14:29.166
of when you're performing over the next few days,

1032
01:14:29.250 --> 01:14:30.916
because it's nice to talk,

1033
01:14:30.916 --> 01:14:34.125
but it's even greater to hear music.

1034
01:14:35.041 --> 01:14:37.625
And maybe we'll punctuate something at the end together.

1035
01:14:38.041 --> 01:14:38.458
(François) What's that?

1036
01:14:38.500 --> 01:14:39.416
(Susie) Oh, I don't know if we could,

1037
01:14:39.416 --> 01:14:40.875
I was like, we could punctuate something

1038
01:14:41.166 --> 01:14:42.083
at the end together.

1039
01:14:42.083 --> 01:14:43.458
(François) Oh, we could, certainly, I'm ready.

1040
01:14:44.791 --> 01:14:47.791
I'm playing three performances,

1041
01:14:48.791 --> 01:14:51.666
and is tomorrow Friday?

1042
01:14:54.791 --> 01:14:57.041
So tomorrow, Friday, at the Revue,

1043
01:14:57.291 --> 01:14:59.708
I am playing an evening of improvisations

1044
01:15:00.625 --> 01:15:02.375
around the aesthetics of trees,
R
1045
01:15:03.166 --> 01:15:07.000
with Cat Toren, Tommy Babin, and Jen Yakamovich.

1046
01:15:08.291 --> 01:15:11.458
And Saturday at 1:00 p.m. in here,

1047
01:15:12.041 --> 01:15:15.125
we are performing with a ten-piece ensemble

1048
01:15:15.500 --> 01:15:17.375
of the Creative Improvisor Studio

1049
01:15:17.708 --> 01:15:19.250
at Western Front and Coastal Jazz.

1050
01:15:20.208 --> 01:15:22.083
Our music, we are in lab,

1051
01:15:22.625 --> 01:15:25.583
just tightening it up right now.

1052
01:15:25.583 --> 01:15:28.583
It's a conducted, multi-conducted piece,

1053
01:15:29.458 --> 01:15:31.291
and collaboratively composed.

1054
01:15:32.416 --> 01:15:34.125
So that will be at 1:00 p.m.

1055
01:15:34.666 --> 01:15:39.041
And then in the evening, I'm playing a piece of mine

1056
01:15:39.041 --> 01:15:41.125
that was originally commissioned last year,

1057
01:15:41.583 --> 01:15:43.500
called "Bird Souls: Score for Flying,"

1058
01:15:44.125 --> 01:15:47.500
with Shruti Ramani, Eve Resser,

1059
01:15:47.833 --> 01:15:51.791
and James Meger, Alvaro Rojas, and myself.

1060
01:15:52.583 --> 01:15:54.500
This piece was originally commissioned

1061
01:15:54.666 --> 01:15:57.041
by the Baryshnikov Arts Center,

1062
01:15:57.375 --> 01:15:59.708
and Japanese composer and percussionist,

1063
01:16:00.000 --> 01:16:00.875
Kaoru Watanabe.

1064
01:16:01.916 --> 01:16:04.708
And it started where we just sat for hours

1065
01:16:04.958 --> 01:16:06.333
in these sessions, and I would listen

1066
01:16:06.500 --> 01:16:08.833
to the migration stories of each of these artists.

1067
01:16:09.791 --> 01:16:14.000
And then I followed, I researched birds

1068
01:16:14.208 --> 01:16:17.041
that had migrated the same patterns of these,

1069
01:16:17.625 --> 01:16:21.625
and so there's like 45 birds in this piece.

1070
01:16:22.291 --> 01:16:25.833
And then, of course, now we have five people on Saturdays,

1071
01:16:25.833 --> 01:16:27.416
so we've got new bird rhythms

1072
01:16:28.166 --> 01:16:31.041
that are populating from Eve, Alvaro,

1073
01:16:33.583 --> 01:16:38.125
sorry, I'll get it, James, and Shruti, and myself, yeah.

1074
01:16:38.625 --> 01:16:42.375
So that's the news.

1075
01:16:44.375 --> 01:16:49.666
(François) So please come out, hear music throughout the festival,

1076
01:16:49.875 --> 01:16:51.625
but especially Susie's his performances.

1077
01:16:52.291 --> 01:16:53.500
Thank you so much for listening and being here.

1078
01:16:53.958 --> 01:16:54.958
(Susie) Thank you. Thank you.

1079
01:16:55.583 --> 01:16:58.208
[applause]

01:17:00.208 --> 01:20:10.791
[music]

1080
01:20:11.791 --> 01:20:15.166
[applause]